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Je suis présentement en train de faire des recherches sur les jetons Vexator. À ce jour j'ai pu répertorier près de 125 exemplaires. Cependant, je m'interroge à savoir si quelqu'un à connaissance d'un autre exemplaire de la variété VC-1, autre que celui présent dans la collection du Musée de la Banque du Canada?

Source: https://www.bankofcanadamuseum.ca/collection/artefact/view/1970.0013.00003.000/canada-unknown-12-penny-1811

Car j'ai fait plusieurs recherches, et j'ai été incapable de confirmer l'existence d'un autre jeton à ce jour. Et l'illustration présente dans le catalogue Charlton semble être le même jeton que celui présent dans la collection du Musée.

De plus, dans le catalogue du Dr. Haxby, c'est aussi la même illustration qui est présente pour l'avers présenté (Variété 1+A). Par contre, comme pour le Charlton, il ne mentionne pas lui non plus si c'est un exemplaire unique ou non, seulement qu'il est extrêmement rare.

À ce sujet, je crois qu'il y aurait quelques améliorations à faire concernant cette catégorie de jetons pour la prochaine édition du catalogue Charlton. Car comme constaté par le Dr. Haxby, et pareillement pour moi, il y a davantage de variétés existantes, et les infos présentes ne sont pas toujours exactes.

À titre d'exemple (Mais ce n'est pas le seul), il y a ce jeton vraiment intrigant, lequel j'ai connaissance de seulement un exemplaire, et qui était présent dans les collections de Hart, Brand et Ford:

Avez-vous vu cette enchère?
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-S4TBK/canada-lower-canada-vexator-canadiensis-12-penny-token-1811-pcgs-au-53-gold-shield

sysec a écrit :Avez-vous vu cette enchère?
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-S4TBK/canada-lower-canada-vexator-canadiensis-12-penny-token-1811-pcgs-au-53-gold-shield

Bonjour Sysec,

Oui, j'avais connaissance de cette vente. C'est difficile sans examiner le jeton en main propre, mais ce jeton me fait un peu penser à une variation de la variété Haxby 3+B (Non répertorié par le Charlton), lequel était connu à seulement un exemplaire à ce jour, et est présent dans la collection du Musée de la Banque du Canada.

ainsivalavie a écrit :

sysec a écrit :Avez-vous vu cette enchère?
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-S4TBK/canada-lower-canada-vexator-canadiensis-12-penny-token-1811-pcgs-au-53-gold-shield

Oui, j'avais connaissance de cette vente. C'est difficile sans examiner le jeton en main propre, mais ce jeton me fait un peu penser à une variation de la variété Haxby 3+B (Non répertorié par le Charlton), lequel était connu à seulement un exemplaire à ce jour, et est présent dans la collection du Musée de la Banque du Canada.

Le jeton en question:
https://www.bankofcanadamuseum.ca/collection/artefact/view/1966.0161.00003.000/canada-unknown-12-penny-1811

I was curious to know if you were aware of the Haxby3 +B that was sold in the first Robins sale in 2018. It is obviously not the same as the one in the Bank of Canada collection.

Lower Canada. VEXATOR 1/2 Penny Token 1811 G4 Brown NGC, Br-558, VC-Unl., Haxby dies 3+B, approximate coinage alignment, copper, 3.99 gm.

Obverse: Large bust, indistinct facial characteristics; individual "pellets" form hair on head and fur on shoulder. Truncation formed by a curving raised line.

Reverse: Date, 1811, in thick, tall figures. Britannia seated on a large chair, much of which shows, with one of its thick legs passing straight down to the top of the 8. Britannia's small feet show below the dress and her left hand has a bold thumb and two bold fingers of equal length.

In our opinion the true grade of this piece is Very Good.
From the Doug Robins Collection of Canadian Tokens

This would add another to your collection of VC 1 like tokens.

As well I hold a vexator attributed as a VC 1 in my personal collection. It was purchased in 2020 from Dr Dave Mclean a fairly prominent Psychiatrist, coin and token collector from Ottawa who many in the coin community would remember. I am presently out of the country but will review it and photograph it for you on my return to see if it is appropriately attributed. I actually had no idea that the known census of this particular token was as lean as your numbers would suggest. I also wondered if you have come across others in you travels since 2021.

JMCG

safarijim a écrit :I was curious to know if you were aware of the Haxby3 +B that was sold in the first Robins sale in 2018. It is obviously not the same as the one in the Bank of Canada collection.

Lower Canada. VEXATOR 1/2 Penny Token 1811 G4 Brown NGC, Br-558, VC-Unl., Haxby dies 3+B, approximate coinage alignment, copper, 3.99 gm.

Obverse: Large bust, indistinct facial characteristics; individual "pellets" form hair on head and fur on shoulder. Truncation formed by a curving raised line.

Reverse: Date, 1811, in thick, tall figures. Britannia seated on a large chair, much of which shows, with one of its thick legs passing straight down to the top of the 8. Britannia's small feet show below the dress and her left hand has a bold thumb and two bold fingers of equal length.

In our opinion the true grade of this piece is Very Good.
From the Doug Robins Collection of Canadian Tokens

This would add another to your collection of VC 1 like tokens.

As well I hold a vexator attributed as a VC 1 in my personal collection. It was purchased in 2020 from Dr Dave Mclean a fairly prominent Psychiatrist, coin and token collector from Ottawa who many in the coin community would remember. I am presently out of the country but will review it and photograph it for you on my return to see if it is appropriately attributed. I actually had no idea that the known census of this particular token was as lean as your numbers would suggest. I also wondered if you have come across others in you travels since 2021.

JMCG

Are you talking about this token?


I knew Dave Mclean, as we had chatted a few times when I published my book about the Bank of Upper Canada tokens (Breton #719-#720), but I only learned of his death last year via Doug Carlson on CCF.

Otherwise, as of today, I'm up to over 175 Vexator tokens listed. But I can't wait to see the picture of yours. Since the VC-1 variety is certainly very rare.

yes that is the token I was referring to. I expect that if you were talking to Dave you would have been familiar with his large collection of the Bank of Upper Canada tokens. I have those in my collection now as well. I will let you know about my vexators when I return home as I do have a few others.

safarijim a écrit :yes that is the token I was referring to. I expect that if you were talking to Dave you would have been familiar with his large collection of the Bank of Upper Canada tokens. I have those in my collection now as well. I will let you know about my vexators when I return home as I do have a few others.

I wondered where his collection had gone. I knew he had a large collection of Bank of Upper Canada tokens, but I was more specifically aware of the varieties he was looking for.

Out of curiosity, did he own any Proof/Specimen/Trial etc. of this series of tokens? Because I'm trying to list this type of issue for my next book on the subject.

Not that I am aware of. they are all catalogued by Courteau numbers and I have not looked at every one so I cannot say for sure but I have not seen any evidence of proofs of other special types. It is a useful collection for research and I will have to read your book to see your take on the series. Lots to do in the next few months.

J'avais un Vexator Canadiensis 1811 dans mon ancienne collection de monnaie que j'ai vendue au début des années 90 quand j'ai décider d'arrêter de collectionner. Il provenait d'une communauté religieuse mais le vendeur n'a jamais voulu me révéler le nom ou l'emplacement de cette communauté. Malheureusement je ne prenais pas de photos à cette époque mais je le reconnaitrais probablement si je le voyais.

Silverwing a écrit :Il provenait d'une communauté religieuse mais le vendeur n'a jamais voulu me révéler le nom ou l'emplacement de cette communauté.

Malheureusement, sans davantage d'indices c'est pratiquement impossible de retrouver l'origine, car ça peut paraître surprenant pour certains, mais il y a quand même eu un nombre important de communautés religieuses au Québec et au Canada qui ont hérité de collections numismatiques importantes au fil du temps.

Je répertorie les transferts de collections pour les jetons coloniaux, et juste dans ceux que j'ai connaissance j'en compte près d'une dizaine, et ça correspond sans doute qu'à une petite fraction du total.